US Soccer Needs A Super Cup
There has been an idea in my head that I have been trying to get out for a while. Basically it’s a trophy that is put on the line before any leagues regular season gets underway in Europe and I believe something like this can happen for US Soccer.
How About One Here???
As all of you know the Trophee Des Champions came to Red Bull Arena this past July as the French Ligue un winners Montpellier faced the Coupe de France winners Olympique Lyonnais. It was a fantastic match that saw both sides trading goals and forcing penalties.
Olympique Lyonnais took the trophy and was declared the champions for the first title of the season. So after seeing that match and of course seeing other Super Cup matches all over Europe or displaying them in a different country, maybe it’s time to have a US Soccer Super Cup.
For one thing, there used to be a pseudo-event made of the first match every season, called MLS First Kick. This First Kick tended to be some permutation of two top teams, preferably held at one of the better attended stadiums. Two years ago it was the Galaxy visiting Seattle. This season there was no clear-cut opener that was spotlit by the league.
The formula for this US Soccer Cup would be the winner of MLS Cup would face the winner of the US Open Cup. If a team earned the “double” of both trophies, you could instead incorporate the Supporters’ Shield winner (or 2nd place, should a team completely dominate). At the moment I don’t think traveling to a European (or Asian) country would bring the tournament justice.
But the best part is that you could hold it anywhere. You could hold it in the MLS Cup Winner’s Stadium. You could pick a neutral venue. You could even give a team in the lower levels of US Professional club soccer a great boost by holding the event there. Wouldn’t it be nice to see the best in MLS at Lockhart Stadium in Ft. Lauderdale of the NASL, then another season down at Blackbaud Stadium in Charleston of the USL Pro League and alternate every year? It would give the supporters of both winners a chance to visit the host city and to give the locals a chance to see two sides from the top division that would normally be drawn for US Open Cup matches or when they come over for a pre-season tournament. Additionally, the would be playing a game that meant something, earning a Cup.
Broadcasting the game could be NBC Sports Network or ESPN and instead of honoring the recent class of Hall of Famers for the defunct Soccer Hall of Fame, maybe before the US Soccer Super Cup match begins we can honor our heroes of the past before the start of this match.
Currently Sporting Kansas City is the US Open Cup winner and the regular season still has two plus months remaining before the playoffs begin. But to have a match to begin the MLS season with some significance before the regular season starts would be pretty cool. We keep discussing or demanding that some of the things that go on in Europe should be implemented here in our leagues, but I think this type of start to the league seasons that US Soccer could use this type of match to signal the true start of the season.
England has the Charity Shield, France has their Trophee des Champions, the rest of Europe has their Super Cups. Spreading the wealth for those that rarely see an MLS side with those supporters making vacation plans for tourisium in said city I think can make a big splash.
55 Responses to US Soccer Needs A Super Cup
Daniel, I actually agree with this. This is one of the good things
that we can learn from a lot of foreign leagues. It could even be
the season opener and count towards the regular season if we really
wanted it to be.
Technically they couldn’t have it count because the Open Cup can be
won by any team in America not just MLS teams.
Sure they can.
My apologies, I misread your comment. I can see your point, but as
long as it is an MLS team that wins, then yes you can do it that
way. That also brings up another challenge. What about the Canadian
Cup? It would be interesting to see a US Open Cup vs Canadian Cup
winner match too. Maybe the winner of that faces the MLS champions?
Who knows, just throwing out ideas.
USOC Winner plays the Canadian Cup winner? I’d watch that. But I
watch the Pro Bowl too, so I’m pretty easy to please.
“Super Cup,” Community Shield, sure. Just don’t count on it
attracting fans. Casual fans won’t be invested unless it’s two
major clubs, TV won’t even carry the US Open Cup, and the
“hardcores” oppose matches that “don’t count” on principle. The
Sounders and Rapids played a Community Shield match in 2011, and
nobody came.
US Open Cup final was on GolTV, but true the rest of the tourney
needs to be on TV. USSF really needs to get sponsor for the US Open
Cup. The FA Cup is sponsored by Budwiser for god’s sake.
Give it time. The fact that they’ve expanded the tournament this
past year tells me that the decision makers see potential in the
tournament. Sponsorship would be awesome money (pun intended), but
what I’d really like to see is the leagues get together and set
aside a weekend or two for the 2nd and 3rd rounds. That’s gotta
help attendance a bit.
Yes they need to have off weeks in MLS to have USOC matches on the
weekend. That way the USOC matches wont be over shadowed by MLS
matches.
If there is no pro/rel, then the MLS / USL Pro / NASL Champions
should play for our national championship.
After Orlando City wins USL Pro, they do not get promoted to a
higher league, neither that qualifies them for any
competition…………..So they are not a 3rd division Champion,
they are a 1st division Champion within their context. So they
should have ( it also applies to the NASL ) a shot at a legit
National Championship.
Wasn’t this an article about why we need a Super Cup?
So, you don’t see the relationship?…….The whole idea of a
supper cup is to unify two tournaments. Before we debate a Super
Cup we should improve and legitimize the ones we have now. The US
Open Cup is a disgrace. And the MLS Cup winner should be consider
MLS Champion, not our national champion as it is consider now,
because it has not beaten the champions from USL Pro and NASL; and
since there is not promotion and relegation, the tags 1st , 2nd and
3rd division are meaningless. …….this shows how the USSF is
totally in bed with MLS. Think about it, if the USL Pro and NASL
Champions had a shot at a National Title, and therefore a ticket to
the Concacaf Champions League, would owners pay 50 Mil for a
franchise?……….In order for a “single entity” system to work,
it needs to have the assurance from the USSF, that the
implementation of a meaningful structure would NOT HAPPEN, since it
will devaluate their “produt”.
Wow, seriously? Just, wow! First off, the “supper cup” can be
anything that any league wants it to be. The US Open Cup has become
much better than it has been and will continue to improve. The MLS
Cup winner is considered the MLS champion. What is your point? They
are the top tier. Despite what you say, you can have different
tiers without pro/rel. In fact, we already do. It might be
meaningless to you, but then again leagues where teams buy
championships have all of the meaning in the world to you. It is
the top level that everyone wants to play in when they play in
America. Your argument goes under the false notion that the MLS
does not want to have teams from other divisions beat them as it
will “devalue” their product. You do realize that in every other
country (as you like to say) that upsets happen in cup competitions
all the time. You do realize that teams from USL Pro can quality
for CCL, right. Its also not a bad thing. I mean seriously, I can
go on and on about how much your argumentnot only doesn’t make
sense, but is completely out of place on this blog posting for this
particular topic, and qualifies as a troll comment. Just another
pointless attempt to bring up one topic when something else CAN
improve things in US Soccer and in MLS as well. Can we not talk
about anything else on an MLS blog without it being about pro/rel?
Seriously, can we not talk about anything without being trolled?
haha Supper Cup…. Fail
“you can have different tiers without pro/rel”…..Sure!..we can
also have 10 teams play-offs; we can have a commisioner that
publicly admits that he does not understand fans culture; we can
have the USSF ( the organism that santion leagues division status )
being presided by the guy that created “single entity”, on a clear
case of conflicting interests; we can also have a journalism that
keep us busy with many unimportant stuf, but don’t touch the hot
topics with a mile long pole……….and of course, we can have a
few self appointed guardians of the status quo telling us that we
have to be patient and everything is going to be just
fine………….But guess what we could also have?…….we could
have one of the best leagues in the world, because of our size, our
wealth, our diversity……..one of the characteristics of football
( the real one) is its capacity to reflect reality. The biggest and
wealthiest cities and nations, are the ones that dominate leagues
and international competitions……so, if we just let football be,
we will have one of the best leagues on the world….in order for
that to happen, we have to get rid of all the non-sense we have now
But really, what do you think about the “supper cup”?
I think the traditional “supper cup” ( league champ vs cup champ )
is unfare by nature, because it puts on the same level two champs
that should not be on the same level. …….The league champ ( on
an traditional system ) is the main champ of the season, it proved
it with consistency over months of hard work, it should not have to
prove on one game, what it has already done. Therefore, I think
supper cups are pointless.
To my friends Robert and Roger. you know i am whole heartily on
your side about the epidemic we call MLS and USSF and the Obvious
way to solve the problem. however it doesnt help our cause that we
try to draw a line from everything on this site to pro rel. its
like those conspiracy nuts trying to draw a line from everything to
secret societies. i see where you are going with this and yes, i
agree that all MLS and USSF are doing is scooting the issue under
the carpet and instead are working AROUND the problem instead
actually on the problem and so long we have garbage garber and
gulati in charge that wont change but not every discussion has to
be about this. lets save the debate for the articles that do
pertain to this matter.
Thumbs up. See, agree or disagree, I would actually listen to you
and take you seriously.
Alex…If you look back on this thread, my comments where not
pro/rel centric. I mentioned pro/rel in order to make a different
point, which was: before we discuss another glorified friendly, we
should prioritize fixing all the nonsense we have now…. If we are
going to have a new “Cup”, it makes more sense one that unifies our
3 champions. That was my point……I try to keep away from
articles that are not pro/rel related………….however, you are
right, I over-do the pro/rel topic, but there are a couple of
things to consider about my obsession……..the first is that
pro/rel ( or its absence ), affects us in many different ways; it
has to do youth development, tv ratings, CCL Performance, growth of
the game, fans alienation and others topics. So it makes it
legitimate to bring it in a wide range of articles……….the
second is, like you acknowledged, that our “status quo” have
clearly shown us that they have NO INTENTION to engage fans in any
healthy debate. So, if there is a strong force pulling in one
direction, it takes another pulling on the opposite direction in
order to bring balance…..so , yes Alan you are right. I kind of
do it on purpose, and I think it is justified.
Which fans are not being engaged in a healthy debate? I mean, you
are not a fan.
honestly…hardly anyone cares about the community shield. It’s
considered to be just a glorified friendly by fans. It has some
popularity because of how popular the EPL is. People are just
excited about the kick off of the regular season and the community
shield represents that. Should we have a Super Cup? Yeah why not.
But hardly any US soccer fans watch MLS now so any kind of Super
Cup isn’t going to mean much. I know this is an MLS website but the
reality is well under 50% of soccer fans in the USA watch MLS(i’d
even guess that number could be as low as 20%). MLS has to address
this issue first.
“People are just excited about the kick off of the regular season
and the community shield represents that.” Good enough for me. I
wouldn’t have minded watching a glorified friendly between LA and
Seattle last spring.
Wow, you MLS fans really enjoy friendlies don’t you
Pop trying to pretend he is NOT one of the tools that only go to
Big Euro team friendlies. You failed btw
Meant John not Pop
Didnt Seattle already do this ? Why yes, yes they did. I went to
them all, but even Seattle couldn’t sell ot for more than a
preseason game so they gave up a just had a similar game for
free………….Hey I know we should switch the talk talk to
ProRel. How about Roger go first? Why would we artificially keep
teams out of first division like the rest of the world ? He will
never answer that.
@Charles You mean 3 teams automatically going down and 3 teams
automatically going up that have not played each other is
artificial? Next you are going to tell me that Man U, Man City, or
Chelsea is going to win the EPL again this year and that it is all
based on merit. Then you are going to tell me that soccer is a
winter sport. You really just don’t understand soccer…..
Alan-. Soccer is no less a winter sport than a summer sport, it is
to slow when it is hot. Having said that, much of our country is
way too cold in the winter so we have to be a summer league. I also
think we benefit from the contrast with Europe instead of our
seasons going head to head.
Soccer is way more of a summer sport than a winter sport. Leagues
get away with playing it in the winter by having milder winters
than we do, or just being too stupid to not play in 10 degree
weather. There are some morons that truly think that we should be
playing in the winter weather. Basketball gets away with it by
playing indoors in the winter.
Maybe, I don’t want to sit outdoors and watch soccer in the winter.
Not be able to use all my season tickets because I was snowed in. I
believe that only ones that want soccer in the winter in MLS are
ones that are not affected by it……………The guys who don’t
go to MLS games. Small sample but this site shows that to be true.
I agree with both of you, and especially that many who say
otherwise don’t actually attend games. But Alan insinuates that
Europe should play in the summer, or that summer is always ideal,
and I disagree. I think cooler weather is better; but, yes, the MLS
should play summer as freezing weather is no good.
If cooler weather is better, than freezing would be ideal, right?
You have to have one or the other for it to work. Even Alex
Ferguson and Arsene Wenger think that a summer season would be
better, but I never insinuated that Europe should play in the
summer. I was being sarcastic towards those that think that WE
should play in the winter.
Alan- I also disagree with you point that pro/rel is better, or
more legitimate if the bottom 3 and top 3 (of the second tier) play
each other is a relegation play-off. It is not about which teams
are better at the end of the season, we know that the relegated
teams may need to sell, and the promoted teams will buy players
before the next season. It is about earning your place in the
league. Also, one great aspect of pro/rel that gets overlooked, is
that the top tier gets three new teams every year. I follow both
the MLS and EPL, but one thing I like about the EPL is how we get
three new teams every year (OK, sometimes one of them has been
recently recycled).
The argument that is always used for pro/rel has to do with merit.
Having 3 teams that could be better than those that come up goes
against that. THAT is artificial. Pro/rel with an OPPORTUNITY to
make it to the next highest tier is the only system that even
remotely makes sense from a merit standpoint. I would be pissed to
see my team relegated when they can beat the promoted teams.
Keeping things interesting by automatic promotion doesn’t mirror
reality either, which is the other ridiculous argument that I hear.
I could really care less about promoted teams because it is
unlikely that they will ever win anything anyways unless they get a
rich owner. Promotion without a real opportunity to win is kinda
dumb. The whole “be happy just to be there” nonsense doesn’t work
for me. Teams are there to compete for titles, not just for the joy
of competing with those that can buy the chance to win.
Uh, no. What is not merit about winning the second tier? Or loosing
in the first tier? As I said, I like the certainty of having 3 new
teams, no they are not going to win the thing this year (but they
could be building, look at Newcastle), but, for me, it entertaining
to have new casts of characters and colors every year. The MLS has
been doing this through expansion, but that has a limit.
Do you think that Newcastle will ever have a shot at winning
anytime soon unless they spend themselves into debt to compete? As
far as merit goes, what justifies teams at the bottom of the table
being relegated when they lost? Somebody has to lose, and unless
someone beats them to take their spot, there is no merit to it.
Having a guaranteed 3 up and 3 down is a social experiment IMHO.
Losing to a better team has merit and would mean more and you would
still get teams going up and down. Its ok to say that one system
has flaws.
And that really sums it up for me, OT. You bring up Newcastle,
which of course will never win the EPL. It is fine, that is how
England wants their league, and unlike the troll morons, why would
I care ?……………….But for the US, we want a parity league,
where Columbus can ( and did ) win. IF you have a parity league
there is no reason to demote the bottom teams. IF they are
qualified to play ( every top leagues has perimeters ), then they
should play in the top division. I say make it 40 teams ( that is
roughly how many played top league in England anyway ). Give
everyone a chance to win every year. Not artificially tell teams,
wait till two years from now, at best. In England that makes sense,
you don’t want the Manchesters to have an even more rediculous GD
and win percentage. In a parity league no. No reason. It will
happen my way, so obviously I am happy.
Probably best to let this thread die, I don’t know why I got into
this so late in the game. But, first let me point out Newcastle won
(the 2nd division) something just two years ago, and have won the
top tier more recently than the Chicago Cubs won the World Series.
Both teams have a lot of fans.
Let me also point out that they were relegated for a season and
were then promoted and injected with money about the same time. The
last time that they won the top league was 1927, and they still can
again, if they are willing to spend themselves into oblivion. But
yeah, we can let it rest.
After Alan and I get the last word, we can let it rest.
How are we goint to be integrated into a global game, by doing
things “like the rest of the world”?……..you are right
Charles….No, I don’t have an answer for that.
If the rest of the world jumped off a bridge….., oh nevermind.
Here we go again. Roger not answering the
question………………. Why would I force teams into the second
division rather than have them play in the first division
?……..Below you state there is a reason, but you don’t answer
the question. There are TWO parts to it. State there is a reason,
then state the reason. I swear this is the only reason I go on this
site, for the comedy value of your posts. Sorry continue with your
rant ( while not answering the question )………………..
you don’t know how pro/rel works do you? the ignorance of some
American fans when it comes to the global game is really
astonishing at times.
We all know how it works. Save the “soccer superiority” garbage for
a different blog.
POP thinks he knows more about soccer than me. Man, I swear that is
why I come to this site. The unintentional comedy value is off the
scales.
if it is “the rest of the world”, like literally 99% of soccer
leagues all around the globe. Then, there may be a very good reason
why they are doing it. ….It is unlikely that we got it right and
they all got it wrong. Don’t you think?………maybe there is a
beautyful garden 2 meters below the bridge…… what makes no
sense is to ignore the overwhelming popularity of a particular
system in our game, and pretend that is not important if we go on
the opposite direction.
It is “overwhelmingly popular” because that is all that people have
access to. Most fans in America don’t really pay attention to
anything but the top teams in other countries. They don’t care
about that system either. I know a lot of soccer fans, but casual
and real fans, and very few give 2 craps about who gets relegated
in England or Spain. They care about the top 3 teams. You can
distort reality all that you want, but people don’t care enough
about it here. You are basically saying to do NOTHING to improve
soccer in America unless we do pro/rel first, and pro/rel is years
off IF it will ever happen. That is crazy talk. Which league and
team do you follow anyways since you are a huge soccer fan?
a Super Cup would be a nice pre season tourney to have. especially
if its between the US Open Cup winner and the supporters shield
winner. i dont feel like the supporters shield winners are getting
enough notoriety. this would be a great way to earn extra cash for
the winner, amp up the fans and promote the sport. IMO i dont think
people have a problem with friendlies, just so long as it dont take
precedence over the regular season which is what we see now. Im all
for it if USSF ever does this.
Honestly, I think this thread needs to get back to what’s important
here, which is the supper cup.
I am SO in favor of a supper cup.
If there were a tournament where the contestants were playing for
their supper, I would watch that. Then there would be no disputing
that the hungriest team would emerge victorious.
“As all of you know the Trophee Des Champions came to Red Bull
Arena this past July as the French Ligue un winners Montpellier
faced the Coupe de France winners Olympique Lyonnais. It was a
fantastic match that saw both sides trading goals and forcing
penalties.” And no one attended. Maybe 10,000 there to watch some
meaningless game. Holding a French league Cup in New Jersey should
tell you all you need to know about any interest in these stupid
“Supper” Cups. And why does Ted aka soccereform aka Roger try and
make everything about pro/rel? And why does he follow a league that
he claims to hate? Roger is a bigger MLS fanboy than anyone.